What the hell even IS vaporwave anymore? - r/Vaporwave (2024)

Reddit has long been a hot spot for conversation on the internet. About 57 million people visit the site every day to chat about topics as varied as makeup, video games and pointers for power washing driveways.

In recent years, Reddit’s array of chats also have been a free teaching aid for companies like Google, OpenAI and Microsoft. Those companies are using Reddit’s conversations in the development of giant artificial intelligence systems that many in Silicon Valley think are on their way to becoming the tech industry’s next big thing.

Now Reddit wants to be paid for it. The company said on Tuesday that it planned to begin charging companies for access to its application programming interface, or A.P.I., the method through which outside entities can download and process the social network’s vast selection of person-to-person conversations.

“The Reddit corpus of data is really valuable,” Steve Huffman, founder and chief executive of Reddit, said in an interview. “But we don’t need to give all of that value to some of the largest companies in the world for free.”

The move is one of the first significant examples of a social network’s charging for access to the conversations it hosts for the purpose of developing A.I. systems like ChatGPT, OpenAI’s popular program. Those new A.I. systems could one day lead to big businesses, but they aren’t likely to help companies like Reddit very much. In fact, they could be used to create competitors — automated duplicates to Reddit’s conversations.

Reddit is also acting as it prepares for a possible initial public offering on Wall Street this year. The company, which was founded in 2005, makes most of its money through advertising and e-commerce transactions on its platform. Reddit said it was still ironing out the details of what it would charge for A.P.I. access and would announce prices in the coming weeks.

Reddit’s conversation forums have become valuable commodities as large language models, or L.L.M.s, have become an essential part of creating new A.I. technology.

L.L.M.s are essentially sophisticated algorithms developed by companies like Google and OpenAI, which is a close partner of Microsoft. To the algorithms, the Reddit conversations are data, and they are among the vast pool of material being fed into the L.L.M.s. to develop them.

The underlying algorithm that helped to build Bard, Google’s conversational A.I. service, is partly trained on Reddit data. OpenAI’s Chat GPT cites Reddit data as one of the sources of information it has been trained on.

Other companies are also beginning to see value in the conversations and images they host. Shutterstock, the image hosting service, also sold image data to OpenAI to help create DALL-E, the A.I. program that creates vivid graphical imagery with only a text-based prompt required.

Last month, Elon Musk, the owner of Twitter, said he was cracking down on the use of Twitter’s A.P.I., which thousands of companies and independent developers use to track the millions of conversations across the network. Though he did not cite L.L.M.s as a reason for the change, the new fees could go well into the tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars.

To keep improving their models, artificial intelligence makers need two significant things: an enormous amount of computing power and an enormous amount of data. Some of the biggest A.I. developers have plenty of computing power but still look outside their own networks for the data needed to improve their algorithms. That has included sources like Wikipedia, millions of digitized books, academic articles and Reddit.

Representatives from Google, Open AI and Microsoft did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Reddit has long had a symbiotic relationship with the search engines of companies like Google and Microsoft. The search engines “crawl” Reddit’s web pages in order to index information and make it available for search results. That crawling, or “scraping,” isn’t always welcome by every site on the internet. But Reddit has benefited by appearing higher in search results.

The dynamic is different with L.L.M.s — they gobble as much data as they can to create new A.I. systems like the chatbots.

Reddit believes its data is particularly valuable because it is continuously updated. That newness and relevance, Mr. Huffman said, is what large language modeling algorithms need to produce the best results.

“More than any other place on the internet, Reddit is a home for authentic conversation,” Mr. Huffman said. “There’s a lot of stuff on the site that you’d only ever say in therapy, or A.A., or never at all.”

Mr. Huffman said Reddit’s A.P.I. would still be free to developers who wanted to build applications that helped people use Reddit. They could use the tools to build a bot that automatically tracks whether users’ comments adhere to rules for posting, for instance. Researchers who want to study Reddit data for academic or noncommercial purposes will continue to have free access to it.

Reddit also hopes to incorporate more so-called machine learning into how the site itself operates. It could be used, for instance, to identify the use of A.I.-generated text on Reddit, and add a label that notifies users that the comment came from a bot.

The company also promised to improve software tools that can be used by moderators — the users who volunteer their time to keep the site’s forums operating smoothly and improve conversations between users. And third-party bots that help moderators monitor the forums will continue to be supported.

But for the A.I. makers, it’s time to pay up.

“Crawling Reddit, generating value and not returning any of that value to our users is something we have a problem with,” Mr. Huffman said. “It’s a good time for us to tighten things up.”

“We think that’s fair,” he added.

What the hell even IS vaporwave anymore? - r/Vaporwave (2024)

FAQs

What the hell is vaporwave? ›

Vaporwave is a hyper-specific subgenre, or "microgenre", that is both a form of electronic music and an art style, although it is sometimes suggested to be primarily a visual medium.

What is the controversy with vaporwave? ›

Vaporwave has been interpreted by many as being a criticism/parody of corporate aesthetics and capitalism, though others disagree and instead see it as a celebration of these aesthetics.

What is vaporwave explanation? ›

The vapor in vaporwave suggests the music's foggy, ethereal, and ever-shifting sound and may also allude to vaporware, which describes software that is promised but never delivered. The wave, meanwhile, is modelled on electronic genres like chillwave and new wave before it.

Is vaporwave anti capitalist? ›

The unique characteristics of vaporwave actually represent the attitude against capitalism and consumer culture.

What killed vaporwave? ›

Vaporwave is dead because it's not a product in the way that hip hop, pop, or country music have become. It was never for sale that way, so in a sense it was always "dead." Long live vaporwave.

Why does vaporwave feel so nostalgic? ›

It's clear that vaporwave is deeply rooted in nostalgia, specially for the aesthetics and sounds of the that era, incorporating references to retro technology like VHS tapes, those old popular floppy disks, old computers etc.

Is vaporwave a satire? ›

The indeterminate and ambivalent play with samples characteristic of the genre is framed variously (and sometimes simultaneously) as satirical, ironic, and above all critical of capitalism.

Is vaporwave like lofi? ›

While easily confused with Vaporwave, there are several key differences between the two, notably Vaporwave's more prevalent usage of computer-generated and surreal settings in combination with highly saturated colors compared to Lo-Fi's generally more grounded-in-reality visuals.

Is vaporwave 80s or 90s? ›

In terms of music aesthetics, the genre dates back to the retro culture and charm of the 1970s to 1990s, especially the 1980s and sometimes the early 2000s. Technology of this era, video games, postmodernism, consumer culture and design, advertising and musical aesthetics especially influenced style at first.

What is the opposite of Vaporwave? ›

Post-vaporwave is the opposite of vaporwave in that it encourages recognition.

What is the outrun aesthetic? ›

"Outrun" is a synonym of synthwave that was later used to refer more generally to retro 1980s aesthetics such as VHS tracking artifacts, magenta neon, and gridlines. The term comes from the 1986 arcade racing game Out Run, which is known for its soundtrack that could be selected in-game and its 1980s aesthetic.

Is vaporwave retro futurism? ›

Another subgenre of retro-futurism is “vaporwave”. This one is similar to the cyberpunk aesthetic but influenced by the Y2K look and early 90's culture and technology. Saturated colors influence the emerging internet with hits of the Windows 95 web browser interface.

Is Mallsoft a vaporwave? ›

Mallsoft (also known as mallwave) is a vaporwave subgenre centered around shopping malls.

Is Synthwave a subgenre of vaporwave? ›

Some people will confuse the visuals of Synthwave with the ones from the Vaporwave genre, but there are key differences in not only what is used in the art of the respective aesthetics, but also the tone of it: while Vaporwave can tend to have a more tongue-in-cheek and sarcastic tone to it, Synthwave is incredibly ...

What makes a song vaporwave? ›

Vaporwave is typically created by sampling and manipulating synthpop, synthwave, or other synth-heavy music from the 80s to 90s.

Is vaporwave the same as LOFI? ›

While easily confused with Vaporwave, there are several key differences between the two, notably Vaporwave's more prevalent usage of computer-generated and surreal settings in combination with highly saturated colors compared to Lo-Fi's generally more grounded-in-reality visuals.

What is the opposite of vaporwave? ›

Post-vaporwave is the opposite of vaporwave in that it encourages recognition.

What is the difference between Synthwave and vaporwave? ›

Some people will confuse the visuals of Synthwave with the ones from the Vaporwave genre, but there are key differences in not only what is used in the art of the respective aesthetics, but also the tone of it: while Vaporwave can tend to have a more tongue-in-cheek and sarcastic tone to it, Synthwave is incredibly ...

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